Increase Max Validator Count

Validating on the Secret Network is getting more competitive. The demand to get into the active set is leaving people waiting with nodes up ready to validate but not in the active set. So with the goal of further decentralizing the Secret Network and bringing in new high quality contributors, I wanted to share my intentions to propose an increase of the max validator set from 50 to 60 after IBC launch.

Some things that will be looked at post upgrade before this proposal would go forward.

  1. Average blocktime
  2. Missed blocks for validators.
  3. Looking for any surprises that impact network stability.
  4. Opinions from the core protocol devs (@Cashmaney @reuven @assafmo @guy )
  5. Community feedback.

If things look good then a proposal to increase to 60 Nodes will be submitted. After this we will go over 1-5 again and if it is determined that another increase would not threaten network stability, then the next step is ideally 70-80 nodes.

Updated plan

Straight to 70 nodes after IBC launch.

9 Likes

Would love to see an increase, concerned about the short term effects. I would suggest a better time for this proposal would be right after New Years. It would allow us to:

  1. Have IBC live
  2. Make sure the network sustains the upcoming spike in demand (remember we have Tarantino NFTs on the horizon, Shade, Stashh, and apparently more projects building on us than I can count).
6 Likes

If the stance of SCRT labs is to wait I can certainly abide by that, but i’d like to see us make some movement forward before new years that is a middle ground. Such as an increase to 55 or 60 at least if things appear smooth after IBC. Decentralizing the set does seem worthy of some movement on a number that has not changed since Feb 2020.

Do you think that is an acceptable middle ground? @guy

3 Likes

I would agree. @Jay-ShadowRealm-SCRT and I spoke to MANY validators at cosmosverse who want to spin up. I think there is no better time to get more people involved in the ecosystem than now. January is too long. These are high quality validators and I would not suspect a dramatic drop off in performance or difficulty in handling the newcomers. I’m also thinking that now 60 slots may not be enough. Maybe 65-75.

We also really need to think about delegation criteria that @dylanschultzie has been talking about. These exist in most ecosystems in cosmos and if we want high quality contributors we need to incentivize them. I’m very excited after meeting the cosmos community.

8 Likes

Thought about this a bit more. I actually think it’s fine. The distribution of staking power is not uniform anyway, and to slow things down you need to see a meaningful slow-down of ~34% of staking power. Adding 10-20 validators would not cause that.

We support increasing to 70 validators immediately after Supernova.

10 Likes

Sounds great. Thanks for reconsidering ser.:rocket:

7 Likes

Also maybe a place we can have all validators can profile on GitHub or something similar.
Terra has the terra station validator profile

3 Likes

This proposal is live as Proposal 59.

1 Like

After discussing in the validator chat room a network participant has proposed an increase from 70-80 validators in the following proposal.

2 Likes

I’m going to vote no on this. The reason is that I don’t feel 100% certainty that I, or anyone really, fully understands the affects of increasing the validator set. I think we are all pretty sure it is fine to increase it to 80. In fact I would say I’m in the 95% + confidence range it will be innocuous. But I don’t want to pass these types of proposals anymore based on hunches and gut intuitions etc etc. I want us to do the work, understand it 100%, and then set a strategy for the long run that is based on that understanding.

Something along the lines of. “Our goal as a network is to have a max number of 300 validators. 300 is optimal for X, Y, and Z reasons. But at our current traffic, it better to be at 80. So as traffic increases we will vote to increase incrementally based on X metric.”

Of course what I wrote is meaningless, but it is the form that I would like decisions like this to take. If we need to incentivize someone, or some group, to do the work and bring recommendations to the community I would support that too.

8 Likes

Domerium Labs will be voting ‘No’ on this, for two reasons.

  1. The proposal is a failure of Governance that should not be endorsed.
    As the proposer stated themselves, the proposal was discussed in the validator group. This is a gated sub-community of 145 people. A tiny fraction of the 84,000 delegators in the network. We are a decentralized network. Having a discussion among 0.17% of the network is not decentralized. Not following Governance rules that were set by the community is not decentralized. Domerium Labs does not stand for these types of white ivory tower proposals. The SCRT community is amazing, involve them!

  2. There have been many discussions over the past couple of months regarding the validator set. In chat, on forums, and in governance calls. To our knowledge, all these discussions resulted in the same consensus; increasing the set is desirable but should be done with a science-based approach. We have a major network upgrade coming in 8 days, upgrading the set of validators, and the possible instability that could introduce, on top of a network upgrade is as far away from best practice in IT as you can get.

Imagine the network does turn out unstable. What is the cause? Was it the upgrade? Was it the validator set? Introducing 2 variables at the same time that could potentially have similar negative consequences means we are going to be spending much more time debugging and finding the root cause than we would have if we only have 1 variable to point at.

Domerium Labs support increasing the validator set after the mainnet upgrade has concluded and the network has proven to be stable.

10 Likes

In response to what Stefan and the-dusky said I would like to add some things to this. Please do not me get me wrong, I mostly agree with these arguments as well (especially the scientific based approach), but I think time is of essence because we don’t want to lose top notch validators (with good uptimes btw) to a too small validator set.

I agree with the fact that we in this case did not have 1 week explicit discussion period before we set this proposal online. But in my defense we had discussions like this about the number of new validators (so to have 70-80 validators, see the first post of moonstash). So going from 70 to 80 now isn’t a completely whole new ballpark of a number and has been in discussions. In light of the departure of some top notch validators that we need for secret in the future, I (and moonstash) decided to put this on chain directly and not waste any more time than necessary. This seems a bit rushed, but since we have a 1 week period anyways we can use the time to discuss it now as well.

Since SCRTLabs delayed the upgrade by 2 weeks we got 2 weeks to actually see if the bigger validator set causes more instability for the network or not. In case it does not we should see this pretty fast.

2 Likes

I fully agree with secret Saturn. I will not allow the code of conduct to stop me from trying to push forward things unless it gets to a point where too much of my time is wasted, and I applaud him and his willingness to help move things forward as well. There is no harm in doing this non political change. Let’s not blow this out of proportion, or we may drive people away like myself from contributing due to bureaucracy.

1 Like

Hello everybody, it’s a pleasure to be here with you, with the expansion of Validators in the network, will you plans give the opportunity to reopen the delegations programme to support these new Validators entering the Set and decentralise the network, balancing a little bit between all of them?

Good points made by @the-dusky and @Stefan_DomeriumLabs that I agree with pretty strongly.

I would also like to see a team funded to bring us a more science-based approach so we can make better decisions regarding validator set and infrastructure.

In this case I would totally support trying to increase the validator set by 10 to see what happens; however, what’s complicating that for me is exactly what Stefan mentioned where we would be introducing another variable in the mix – while we’re trying to apply performance improvements as part of an upgrade, and needing to measure that.

From @Stefan_DomeriumLabs:

Introducing 2 variables at the same time that could potentially have similar negative consequences means we are going to be spending much more time debugging and finding the root cause than we would have if we only have 1 variable to point at.

The peer issues we’ve seen and other performance issues due to hardware, etc. are not easily investigated as a group of validators. My team spent many hours and days down that rabbit hole and so even if we have a two-week delay on the upgrade, if there are problems we’d have to resolve those before Supernova Alpha. I don’t have a high degree of confidence that that could happen in the next week or two.

As someone with a test engineering background, this is a big red flag – trying to do this change before an upgrade that will be addressing performance issues.

Let’s do one thing at a time:

  • the upgrade
  • take a bit of time to evaluate
    • how much of an improvement is there?
    • are peering issues the same?
  • then look at increasing the validator set

@moonstash and @SecretSaturn I applaud your efforts to address the many validators who haven’t been able to get into the active set by increasing the limit! I was sad to see some exceptional teams booted out of the set recently :sob:.

My recommendation is to increase the validator set after Supernova Alpha. Unfortunately, I will have to vote no on this proposal.

3 Likes

Well! Since the upgrade is approximately 3 weeks away and it’s a small increase in the validator set, I support this proposal and will change my vote to Yes :joy:

4 Likes

Digiline Validator voted YES on proposal #85 as we believe this will result in a net positive for the network.

We do acknowledge the issues brought upon by other validators, but we believe that given that the upgrade to shockwave alpha has been delayed by a few weeks, the network will be able to test the change in max validators number, and it will be made clear what kinds of performance changes will occur.

This being said, we do agree with other validators that in the future it would help to have a more scientific way to decide what the maximum validators number should be, rather than just guess at a number.

3 Likes

I’m going to vote YES on this

1 Like

The vote has already concluded and the proposal has passed.

1 Like

backlog comment that was filtered by the anti-spam bot, I just approved it :wink:

2 Likes