Designated Secrettipbot Development Proposal

Secret Governance
60

@lmmassi, @Tosch110 thank you for the proposal and your efforts to grow the Secret Network community.

I would like to share a couple of observations regarding the process of this proposal:

  • As @tor mentioned, I think it’s appropriate to withdraw the proposal as is. Consider this week as a week of discussion and if you’d like to submit the proposal as is, you still should. I think it’s important that as a community we adhere to best practices we decided on in the past. I do want to acknowledge that looking at current on-chain metrics, it seems most of the community is aligned with things as they are.

  • With regards to cost of the project, I think as a community we should be asking what kind of value this brings to our ecosystem. As a customer you pay for the value you get out of something. A more constructive way to look at it is to say is this X SCRT well-spent for the ecosystem growth.

  • I am concerned the language we are using while discussing these proposals will alienate members of our community and that’s the last thing we want. I urge everyone to be more curious and ask questions when you see discrepancies, rather than pointing fingers in an accusing way. Let’s be constructive, let’s acknowledge that we are all here because we care about this community and let’s treat others on the forum with that in mind. We all want Secret Network to grow. I am afraid the current approach is toxic for the Secret Network community.

Now, a couple of questions regarding the proposal (and why we want to enforce a one week discussion period as best-practice):

  • What’s the adoption rate of tipbot in other communities? Can you share benchmarks as to how many tips were sent in other networks? How many users are introduced to the network because of tipbot?

  • What are your KPIs? What will determine whether this project is successful or not? I know it’s up to the community to make tipbot useful, i.e. get more ppl to own SCRT, broader distribution, broader awareness etc.

  • What’s the user journey for a twitter account to receive tips? Is it similar to tip with brave? How does Alice create a secret account, who controls the keys etc.

  • If I want to tip someone, what does the UX for that look like?

  • You mention in the future, you’d reduce the 5% fee. Is that tied to a milestone (like X users or X SCRT in tips)

  • Will there be reporting on tipbot activity and how it contributes to our ecosystem

  • People are concerned with double dipping. If you were to eliminate the per tx fee, how much would this proposal be?

I would like to re-iterate that I think this proposal should be retracted, some of these questions should be answered and discussed openly and then the proposal should be resubmitted.

4 Likes
61

What’s the adoption rate of tipbot in other communities? Can you share benchmarks as to how many tips were sent in other networks? How many users are introduced to the network because of tipbot?

The current pilot tipbot @cosmostipbot is currently live. We have stated numbers in the proposal itself. Currently there are 1700 active users and depending on the month the tipbot processes around 2500-3000 tx after only a few months of operation.
That means 1.3% of all monthly transactions on the Cosmos Hub currently come from the @cosmostipbot

What are your KPIs? What will determine whether this project is successful or not? I know it’s up to the community to make tipbot useful, i.e. get more ppl to own SCRT, broader distribution, broader awareness etc.

Keep in mind the @cosmostipbot for example is the easiest way to onboard new users. Essentially a user has a tipbot wallet linked to his or her Twitter ID. By sending a direct mssg to the @cosmostipbot or @secrettipbot he/she has all the regular options that a hot-wallet provide.
We have listed the commands in the proposal as well.

What’s the user journey for a twitter account to receive tips? Is it similar to tip with brave? How does Alice create a secret account, who controls the keys etc.

As soon as someone tips you via @secrettipbot you will receive a notification that you were tipped and will receive the tip regardless of owning an acct or not. This literally makes everyone on Twitter and Telegram a potential user of SCRT right away.
To claim the tip a user simply sends a DM (direct mssg) to the tipbot account and can !withdraw to a private wallet/ exchange or continue tipping.

If I want to tip someone, what does the UX for that look like?

The standard tip command for @secrettipbot would be:

@secrettipbot !tip 1 @usernameexample

This will work on any public tweet or in Telegram chat groups.

You mention in the future, you’d reduce the 5% fee. Is that tied to a milestone (like X users or X SCRT in tips)

Currently that depends on how quickly the 5% operational fee covers the cost of running the tipbot. A good estimate would be that once it reaches 5x the size of the cosmostipbot the fee can be reduced. An approx figure would be 7k-10k active users.
We expect this point to be reached relatively quick due to the great activity of the Secret community.

Will there be reporting on tipbot activity and how it contributes to our ecosystem

People are concerned with double dipping. If you were to eliminate the per tx fee, how much would this proposal be?

Please check my previous comment above this should clarify the question. Everything is fully transparent and can be tracked on any Secret Network explorer. Yes also the main tipbot account address will be public for you to track tips, total tx and overall growth.

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62

What is “double tipping”?

Tips are directly tied to the blockchain, sending a tip is sending a SCRT transaction on the blockchain.

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63

WhisperNode has changed it’s vote on proposal 26 to Abstain. This is not a sign that I do not support @Immasssi and @torsch, but rather a recognition that standard procedures in terms of on chain communitiy spend proposals were not followed. Being one of those parties engaged in conversation with both the KavaTipBot team and the SG-1 team prior to proposal submittal (in Awareness Committee calls and in various chats) I feel as though if I voted it would be viewed with distrust by the greater community. I am excited to have a tipbot for Awareness initiatives, and think it would be a fun addition to the community. I will continue discourse on the forums and will support whatever decision is made by the rest of the community on this proposal. I would encrouage any of the Whispernode delegators to vote as they see fit, but I cannot in good conscious make a vote at this time. If voted down, discussed, and re-submitted I will absolutely vote yes.

2 Likes
65

A point which i want to clarify in depth is the 5% fee to cover future operational cost. After several talks with fellow Secret Network validators and the community it was suggested to lower the operational fee to 3% in order to better kickstart the @secrettipbot. We agree and should the proposal pass will go live with the suggested 3% as the maximum operational fee and never higher.

One has to keep in mind that its not comparable to for example an exchange were millions of $ flow in and out.
So mostly tx made are micro transactions in the average range of 0.01 ATOM (0.07 SCRT)

:white_check_mark: Example:

For an average tip of 0.01 ATOM the operational fee at 3% would be 0.0003 ATOM

Note: This does not apply to deposits or withdraws from and to the @secrettipbot they are free.

4 Likes
66

Can,

Part of the value has been discussed on Awareness Committee calls as well. Currently there is friction in incentivizing community members to engage in various Awareness initiatives. I feel as though they can be improved with TipBot usage. I have seen this applied in other communities very successfully. It becomes very easy for telegram admins, committee leads, etc. to send tokens of appreciation for completing various tasks. It’s hard to measure in terms of strict KPIs. Right now to reward any users or run small competitions we have to have a lengthy process of wallet creation, twitter announcement, random raffle drawing, etc. Furthermore if funded by the Foundation it requires KYC and all kinds of red tape. This tool would allow for initiatives to be run by anyone in the community. Node runners could perform giveaways of all sorts. Gifs/Memes could be rewarded. Small things that have big impacts in terms of creating a welcoming environment to new users.

4 Likes
67

Hello everyone,

After reading a bit of discussions, Secure Secrets is keeping the vote yes for proposal 26.

  1. I have to agree with @anon60841010 that before this proposal, the community did not formally agree with one week pre-post on a formal proposal. Even if its best practice, it should not be penalized for after the proposal has already been put up. For moving forward proposal 27 and later, a formal structure should be proposed on the network, that highlights best practices for future proposals.
    @can maybe we can up with some formal document, as an active proposal, that highlights best practices for future proposals on the network, like which proposals need a signal? or what the minimum proposal should include? KPI’s, fund allocation, partners? Maybe we should draft a sample proposal. Also what does pre-proposal and post-proposal look for the propose. This may give future proposals a standard practice.

  2. The Cosmostipbot has shown enough, engagement for the Secrettipbot to be developed.

  3. We had already evaluated, that a lot of this development will remain closed-source and is owned and maintained by SG-1 (until or if they decide to OpenSource it in the future, they can still retain rights to the development). Argumentaly many of the projects that have been proposed previously are for-profit so i don’t see why Secrettipbot should be otherwise as long as its bringing a service that utilizes the network.

  4. Priced at 18k Secrets i think its still reasonable for a good long term maintenance.

The only thing i wanted @Immasssi is the $SCRT from the raised funds going to be used (in part) to incentivize tipping using the tipbot?

@Carter-Woetzel
Cheers,
And Happy Holidays to everyone on the forms.

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68

Yes thats the plan. We want to conduct regular giveaways to incentivize the usage and exposure like we do with @cosmostipbot Currently all the giveaways are run through the bot even when they are not Cosmos Hub related. So almost on a daily basis SCRT will be given away on Twitter and Telegram :blush::+1:

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69

For reasons already mentioned, I’m voting no in its current form.
All the best all the same SG-1, whether it’s the proposal or a new one.

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71

It’s just evolution as we learn, some early proposals were rushed and with a more mature community they also wouldn’t fly without modification.

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73

Hi Everyone,
Firstly I wish you all a Merry Xmas as good will to friend & foe.
On that point must say that this issue has caused me concern due to the fact that members of the community who have put a lot of their time into SCRT with no financial reward are becoming passionate on either sides of the fence.
Which does make this observer uncomfortable.
The points of contention should of been aired prior to the proposal going to a vote!
This is not a SG-1 issue BUT our problem to resolve.
The fact it as shown cracks of devision should make us all uncomfortable.
We should sort out our private business as a community before making it public with a proposal.
Thus for the sake of short & longer term harmony. SG-1 should withdraw & allow private discussion to take place so the parties who have put so much of themselves into SCRT can find a way forward with modified Governance.
You are an inspiring team & sad reading on this issue which seems to be more about us than the proposal.
Again this is not a SG-1 issue but if they wish to be a partner & valued member of the community then that is the honourable thing to do.
Once Governance is sorted then by all mean seek a Yes vote

1 Like
74

@Immasssi @Tosch110 I saw you were saying you won’t submit another proposal if this one gets rejected.
Regardless of what I think of this proposal, I think that the fact that you changed some terms like the fee percentage and the intention to open source the code is enough to withdraw this one and submit another updated one.
The proposal submitted on chain acts as a contract between you and the community. This is btw exactly why we urge people to do a forum discussion prior to submitting an on-chain proposal.

1 Like
76

For the sake of the argument, one way to withdraw would be:

  1. Proposer announces that he wants to withdraw the current proposal so he could propose an updated one.
  2. Those who voted “Yes” change their vote to “No” so they could proceed and make an updated proposal.

IIRC this method was used in the past and there is no reason for not to use it now, if SG-1 wants of course. I already stated my opinion about it.

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77

Mario first voted YES. After a little more consideration (esp. regarding the commission), the vote was changed to ABSTAIN. Given the updates I have seen, Mario’s vote will likely return to YES soon.

Regarding the meta discussion happening, I see no reason to penalize this team and this proposal for things either not formalized or not obviously available. I agree norms should be established (and obviously readily observable to those who might consider a proposal), and will take part in that process as appropriate.

5 Likes
80

-(Community Pool Proposal) DataHub - Secret Network Integration
Oct 28

Submitted to on-chain vote 2020-11-17

-Secret Website Community Spend Proposal
Sep 23

Submitted to on-chain vote 2020-09-29

-(Community Pool Proposal) Keplr - Secret Network Integration
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Submitted to on-chain vote 2020-08-24

This pattern alone shows that we have an agreed norm and convention.

82

Okay I switched my vote to yes, but I’d like for the tipbot to have snip20 support.

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83

I support this proposal and think that the potential impact of this tool for SCRT and the community is substantial.

I also echo @anon60841010 and @mohammedpatla’s points above.

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84

After reading all replies personally I share @Avret 's concerns about the actual dev effort involved when they already have a cosmos tipbot running.

I recognize it has some utility, but I think you’re just trying to grab the chance to make a quick buck by doing ctrl replace string ”cosmos” for ”secret” on your code and probably not much more.

Which, really, its fine. My dev job ends up being like that many times. The problem is selling it as a brand new thing for secret.

Trying also to claim that someone that receives a tip in SCRT becomes a user is dubious at best. The statement reminds me of when Warren Buffet was gifted crypto by Justin Sun lol.

Also 5, 3, or 1 percent feels like double dipping regardless of the amount transacted. You’re already getting a significant chunk of change for arguably a small dev effort.

On the topic of the process of presenting proposals, I agree with Ian in that no formal rules were ever set so trying to pin that on them feels silly.

Personally I don’t support this proposal not because of the tip bot itself but rather how the whole thing has been presented. I do think SG-1 has a great validator service though and they’re overall good guys.

85

I think it’s better if we think of the value this proposal is creating for Secret Network and not how much dev hours it would take to complete.

I frankly don’t care if it’s already built.

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86

I would agree in most circumstances. If there’s something I hate at my workplace is when the subject of man hours and time tracking comes up but given the way it was presented I felt the need to bring it up.

As previously mentioned, I think it’s a “cool to have” feature, but regardless of whether it passes or not I don’t see a particularly big impact. Ultimately I feel pretty indifferent to it.

1 Like