How should the community pool be used going forward?

Now that the 20 million SCRT ecosystem fund has been announced I think it’s time to reconsider how we plan to use the community pool going forward as a community.

I can start with an Idea of how we could.

  1. I think we should make 10 -15 small bets on teams each year using the funds that come in each year.
  2. Aim to keep a large reserve.
  3. Not let people take 10%+ from the pool unless the work is desperately needed or it’s an emergency.

My reasoning for this suggestion is that the community pool has the only funds that the public has an actual say in how it’s used. We have no say in how the EnigmaMPC, Secret Foundation, or Ecosystem fund operates in regards to use of funds. I believe if we deplete the pool or allow companies to loot / empty it at a fast rate then it will continuously happen as we progress.

How does everyone else think the pool should be used going forward?

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I don’t think the issue isnt so much with the number of projects funded but the fact we are funding projects only for them to be ran for profit in addition to some absurd valuations. On this last front, thankfully some of the most absurd proposals didn’t pass.

Funding things only to end up paying for them in some way at the time of using… gonna leave it at that for the sake of remaining civil.

I’m probably in the minority here given that these for profit proposals passed, but going into 2021 some things I would like is no more for-profit proposals requesting funding, open-source development being the default (I’m open to be convinced on why closed source might be better but I have yet to see a convincing argument), and scrutinizing some the valuations/funding requested further (e.g How many people will be working on this? How long will you provide support post deployment? etc)

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I agree with you as far as i can tell.

I don’t think it makes sense to fund anything that isn’t first and foremost community first.

I think outside of amounts like i said, its been the general intent to only fund things that are actually community first and not for profit stuff. Imho any project or product funded should put the community value front and center.

So open source and not for profit.

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Agree with “ open source and not for profit “, I would like someone from the Enigma team to chime in and give a more in depth explanation as to how the ecosystem fund will be used/ what would be the process to ask for funding.

With the state of the current community ressources it makes little sense to double fund features.

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Here was our stance from the early days. My views haven’t changed much, but the stakeholders have changed since April 2020.

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It is not correct to set quotas for such funds. Each project should be evaluated within its own competence. If there is only one project that deserves funding this year, so be it. If there are 10 projects, so be it.
My biggest fear is that the community fund is being exploited by some of the big players in the system. I struggled hard to prevent this. But I failed because this protective attitude was not shared by the community. I hope it will not continue to be seen as a bonus for some validators in the future.

I also agree. It was not right to fund initiatives designed for profitability only for adoption.
I have no hope that the community will make the right decisions about this fund from now on.
This tipbot incident was the last straw.
But it did help. to understand that most of the big players here are self-interested.

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Reserve management will have many opinions but at the end of the day the reserves will deplete faster and faster if there are no general limits.

It’s not as though limits could be reasonably or safely enforced on a protocol level. It’s just me sharing how we plan to proceed in how we vote on spend props and asking others to share their expectations for pool use.

I don’t expect anything truly dangerous will pass but coalition building with others in the open will help ensure nothing too dangerous or extractive ever passes.

As for your veiled accusations that i abused the pool with the last proposal. I’ll just point out that at the rate we see people trying to drain the pool, the whole thing would have been nearly emptied by the cosmostation ask, original figment ask, then this citadel.one asks. Seems like I’ve been the loudest and most consistent advocate of defending the reserves on the network.

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Hello Secret community,

Thank you for starting this discussion and pointing out the need for more clarity on this matter.

I do believe we need to formalize as a community what the “rules of the game” are, if possible, and on a regular basis. Suppose the governance committee would be the place to schedule in a moment regularly to foster consensus on this matter. Or perhaps start a community pool committee dedicated to this? Would be happy to take the lead on this if deemed useful and in line with broader best practices.

My personal preference would be in line with what @moonstash has outlined in his post. Especially point 2 and 3. I’d go as far and propose that it would be in the community’s interest to decide on concrete percentages every year or so for allocations, for example, 25% reservation for desperately needed work or an emergency etc.

Now I do have a couple of ideas and would love feedback.

  1. The community pool should fund a “SecretStarter” to address the fundraising needs that might not necessarily be in line with the “goals” of the community pool. Check out https://polkastarter.com/.

  2. Efforts and ideas that would more actively contribute to the community pool’s reserve in a sustainable way should be pursued and supported.

  3. The community pool should fund/donate to at least 1 entity or project that furthers privacy as a human right in general not excluding projects or associations non-secret related.

  4. There should be a community prize for the community member of the month lol.

  5. The community pool should have a hackathon and or art prize pool allocation.

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I like everything you said. But i would challenge you to expect EnigmaMPC, foundation, or ecosystem fund to fund some of your suggestions for the pool. The pool is the smallest stakeholder out of everything i listed.

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Do you have some examples of an emergency that would be left to the community?

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Yes ENG to SCRT burn is a good example. EnigmaMPC nor foundation could pay for it. Wouldn’t have happened without the pool.

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Such extremes won’t happen again or often enough to warrant hoarding a big reserve. I’m at a loss for emergency community funding examples that may happen.

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I think what i said is how we have reserves comparable to cosmos.

Why would we deplete the only shared resource we have for funds?

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Holding back 90% to avoid depletion seems extreme, and we should aim to have principles like open source and all that good stuff, but a hard and fast rule like 10% of the kitty, is likely to be a deterrent to bigger projects/teams.

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Not sure if Cosmos is that good of an example on that front. Imho they underutilized their community pool. It slowed down their progress.

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They do underutilize their pool. But they are a great example because they reached the multi dollar value per coin + have large reserves.

People act like we are making plans to remain static in our behavior. I think making sure we have a large reserve and waiting for the value to go up a bit first THEN being better about funding big things makes the most sense.

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Interesting!

Do we have a document somewhere where it states what the goals are of EnigmaMPC, Secret Foundation and Ecosystem fund? These entities have more reserves to attract bigger projects/teams as suggested by @taariq and speed up progress pointed out by @SecretTaz. Should and or can we trust them to take the “lead” on this in these early days?

If so I think @moonstash makes a good point in his last post. Given that if we were to allow proposals of 150k for example it would take 5 months before the pool is refilled as @SecretTaz pointed out in another thread. And given that we are in the early days it is our believe that SCRT is not valued “appropriately” at this time hence it would be good to be “conservative” until SCRT appreciates over time to a multi dollar value per coin.

Let me know if I misrepresented or misunderstood your words!

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Agreed , Aim to keep the reserve Large.
As Franklin pointed out there is a lot of value growth potential ahead.
SCRT is conservatively only 10% of its BTC/SCRT Value

For larger Non Profit projects ( over 5% of the pool ) that is of benefit to the progression of SCRT should be split 3 ways.
If the other 2 funds do not see the merit & are Not willing to cough up then maybe it was Not such a good thing after all.
For Large Profit Projects we could contribute up to 2% ( still using 3 way split model ) as a sign of good faith but the balance must come from the other funds with their checks & balances along with ours as to the merit of the spend.

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We should be careful with allowing foundation and EnigmaMPC to split funding things using some of the pool. That was the justification for the pool funding the foundation tax module and the secret network website. In effect it has allowed the pool to be used to fund things the foundation wants but doesn’t want to pay for. This can be abused rather easily by them just shoving portions or full proposals off to the pool.

Id love to see a legitimate reason for why the ecosystem fund or foundation wouldn’t be able to fully commit to funding something instead of leaning on the pool. The pool has the smallest amount of resources between foundation, EnigmaMPC, ecosystem fund, and the community pool. Not sure there is a scenario where the ecosystem fund of 20 million could only handle % of a proposal and expect the smallest resource the pool to pick up the rest of the tab.

Foundation, ecosystem fund, or EnigmaMPC saying no to funding something is a signal that the project doesn’t deserve funding imho.

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Happy to see us do our bit Ian,

Clarify
We fund up to a % of our pool for our 1/3 & the other pools fund the rest ( ie : more that the 1/3 , 1/3 if the proposal is very large ) where the funding Exceeds our % Limit.

So Our Funding is set to the % Of Our Pool regardless of the size of the proposal.

If we see that we are being used & abused then revisit & change %ages.

At the moment there is lots of " That would be wonderful for the Ecosystem ".re project presently under discussion

So It would be wonderful to work as a team & share costs on bigger projects So everyone comes out winners.

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